Tiger Rock’s Claim Of Accredited Instructors Is Meaningless

        A popular tactic of mcdojangs is to claim they have “accredited” instructors. Or that their instructors must study and take a test every year to make sure they have all the latest teaching methods and techniques in order to make sure their instructors stay skillful and up to date. This is just fluff and hype. It is utterly meaningless to claim your instructors are accredited if they are simply evaluated by their own group without outside critique. The American Taekwondo Association (ATA) and Tiger Rock Martial Arts (ITA) and various other mcdojang organizations do this. The ATA started it and everyone else copies it. Notice the Tiger Rock Martial Arts advertisement I received in the mail the other day:



Wow! Accredited instructors! That must mean they have the best martial arts instructors in the entire world!!!!

In the words of Dwight Schrute:      “False!”

No, they do not. Accredited does not mean anything in this context since the only people who evaluated the instructors is Tiger Rock itself. It would be as if I affirm people, send them off to represent everything I teach and my company. Then those 5 stand with me and affirm another 6th person and 7th and 8th and so on and then claim we now have accredited instructors. It means nothing. It is an incestuous accreditation.

If one looks up accreditation on Wikipedia it explains that,

Accreditation is a process in which certification of competency, authority, or credibility is presented.

Organizations that issue credentials or certify third parties against official standards are themselves formally accredited by accreditation bodies (such as UKAS); hence they are sometimes known as “accredited certification bodies”. The accreditation process ensures that their certification practices are acceptable, typically meaning that they are competent to test and certify third parties, behave ethically and employ suitable quality assurance.

        Typically in the USA accreditation speaks of one body giving affirmation and certification to a third party individual or organization which means they follow certain standards and procedures and have the right resources, knowledge, and skills, that are proper and agreed upon. Within martial arts this could mean anything. For Taekwondo the world governing body for Taekwondo as a martial art is the Kukkiwon. The Kukkiwon is certified and accredited by the Korean government, and is also recognized by the World Taekwondo Federation, which is also recognized by the International Olympic Committee and also affirmed by the original Korean Taekwondo Association. So, various government and corporate bodies recognize the Kukkiwon as the proper ranking body for Taekwondo. In turn, Kukkiwon black belt certification and instructorship accredits individuals to teach Taekwondo. Also, the Kukkiwon itself consists of a board of members who vote on things and not any one leader who dictates what will be and what will not be. Members are voted in and out of positions. It does not exist specifically for profit either as a corporate entity. The Kukkiwon is affirmed by outside sources who are not a part of its structure which gives it realistic accreditation. The Kukkiwon is an official Korean government organization promoting culture and tourism through Taekwondo as well.

        Groups like Tiger Rock Martial Arts International on the other hand are a corporate entity that exists for profit to make as much money as possible, and is its own singular company run by its own founders. Tiger Rock used to be known as “Karate Taekwondo Plus Academies.” The International Taekwondo Alliance is their claim of affiliation. Later, the name Tiger Rock was implemented instead of TKD-plus (but apparently some gyms still use the TKD-plus sign on their buildings and are part of the ITA. According to http://www.tkd-plus.com,

ITA’s Grand Masters are Craig Kollars, Bert Kollars, and Art Monroe. Senior Masters are: James Bailey, Rick Hall, Joe Calhoun, Ron Allman, Don Anderson, Terry Newton, and Marv Conway. ITA’s Masters are: Mark Smith, Dan Cerminaro, Joel Neely, Kirke Woodall, Tim Leirer, Phearthur Moore, Richard Johnson, George LeBlanc, Chris Jackson, Carol Hall, Frank Michael, Brent Scoggins, Tom Mathews, Wayne Mathews, Dwayne Parker, Terence Parker, Victor Jordan, Charles Newton, Michael Cerminaro, Sandy Jordan, Roger Killen, Rick Pope, Elliott Slaughter, Danny Williams, Earl Scoggins and Brian Mitchelmore.

Notice that none of these people are Korean as there are absolutely no roots from Korean Taekwondo within this company, even though they claim so. Tiger Rock claims that their linage goes back to the “honorable Won Kuk lee and Chung Do Kwan” (one of the original 10 martial arts schools in Korea that predates Taekwondo). None of the Korean masters such as Lee Won Kuk or General Choi had anything to do with founding or caring about forming the ITA, Tiger Rock Martial Arts International, or TKD Plus Academies.  The truth is ITA/Tiger Rock was founded by ex American Taekwondo Association instructors who were disgruntled for whatever reasons and started their own offshoot from the ATA calling it the ITA. According to an article in the January 2010 edition of TaeKwonDo Times Magazine,

“…the three founders of the ITA, Craig Kollars, Bert Kollars, and Art Monroe, were junior instructors of the ATA. They created the International Taekwondo Alliance (ITA) which is just their own group specifically made for their brand’s franchise schools. None of these schools are independently run, but follow strict corporate standards created by Tiger Rock itself….by the end of 1980, those three people became independent from the ATA and formed a small independent association.” (p. 61)

        So, basically this organization was created by junior level instructors, not even master level instructors of ATA style Taekwondo. Accrediting their own instructors through their own party is simply just saying their instructors have paid a lot of money into the Tiger Rock system and are allowed a license to teach under their name. Such accreditation is really only worth the junior instructorship that ITA was founded on. It is not proper for someone who does not even have proper accreditation themselves to create their own style of martial arts and become masters of it.

        Each Tiger Rock franchise location pays an annual fee, including the “special” instructor qualification tests each year. It is simply multi-level marketing in the sense that people bring others up into the Tiger Rock system, tell them to start new school locations, each year their students pay to train and the school itself pays a percentage fee of their revenue. Instructors also have to test every year which is simply an excuse for the company of Tiger Rock Martial Arts International to make money off of its own people ever year and get as rich as possible. There really is no reason to keep taking instructor tests each year except to charge their own franchisees extra money for each of their “accredited instructors” to stay accredited each year. A school could have 5 to 10 or so instructors all paying into this system.

        This accreditation is worthless outside of Tiger Rock. Unlike Tiger Rock, true Taekwondo certification of a black belt instructor is for life. A one time test of skill given by a panel of certified 4th degree or higher black belts evaluate students for black belt degree ranks. Each degree of black belt would be its own test. There is no mandatory instructor training with the Kukkiwon, there is that option as an extra novelty certification if you get to travel to Korea, but it is not mandatory. Any dan rank 4th degree or higher can test people for black belts and any lesser dan rank can go to a 4th dan or higher for their students to be tested. The instructor who ranks his student then submits an application to the Kukkiwon, and certification is signed by the Kukkiwon’s current president directly from Korea. The Kukkiwon is true Korean Taekwondo and the direction of where the true historic linage ended up today since Taekwondo’s founding in 1955.

        True Taekwondo allows for an independent structure. Each school is independently run by its own people. There is no corporation owning all Kukkiwon schools. Of course if someone with a capitalistic mindset (which I approve of) wanted to make a Taekwondo business with a franchise of gyms with Kukkiwon certified instructors that is fine. At least their company will be truly accredited by an outside source, and the proper one at that. Accreditation is only worth the body it was given by. If a governing body accredits its own people, and their skill is lacking, and not part of the true linage of Taekwondo and is itself an offshoot, the accreditation is only worth anything to their in group, and if their instructors lack in true martial arts skills and self defense knowledge than their accreditation is very weak. It is incestuous and silly.

        Mcdojangs, most notably Tiger Rock Martial Arts International, will claim they have direct linage to an original kwan (or school) of Taekwondo such as their claim they are from the Chung Do Kwan founded by Lee Wan Kuk in the early days before 1955. This is easy to do for anyone who wants to pretend they are part of true Taekwondo history. Anyone who had an instructor, who had an instructor, who had an instructor somewhere at sometime, who learned or became a master under whoever, can link back to whatever historical linage they want to claim. The problem is off shoot branches fall off the direct root of the tree. It is like following a train track where truth is the train track. Some people walk off the track and build another new track in another direction off of the main line. While the main train track had went one direction toward a goal, and accepted standard, or style and the newly built tracks go off in another direction away from this “track of truth.” This is such with groups like ATA and Tiger Rock. Tiger Rock founders may at some point have studied under a guy who trained with an early kwan, or trained under a guy who had an instructor from and early kwan at some point in time, but that does not mean anything. Also, the truth is that Tiger Rock can only link back to the Chung Do Kwan through the linage claims of the American Taekwondo Association’s founder H.U. Lee (who definitely went off the track of truth and made his own offshoot) since they originally trained under the ATA as junior instructors before making up their own Taekwondo group.

        On Tiger Rock’s website explaining their history it mentions that a delegation of Tiger Rock masters were honored to attend Won Kuk Lee’s last formal seminar in 2002, but this does not prove support by Won Kuk Lee or that he somehow was part of their formation. They simply attended a seminar. Anyone can do that from any organization from anywhere! Just pay the seminar fee!

        Other organizations or martial arts styles that can actually link historically to the Chung Do Kwan are groups like the International Taekwon-do Federation founded by General Choi Hong Hi (Choi was a direct second generation student of Won Kuk Lee and temporary Chung Do Kwan school master), and Tang Soo Do which is the actual name of the martial art the original Chung Do Kwan school taught created by Won Kuk Lee. However, the ITF became the very first Taekwondo offshoot organization that went in another direction away from the direction of where the Korean Taekwondo/Taesoodo Association was headed. The ITF is itself another style of martial arts with the name of “Taekwon-do,” which is spelled with a hyphen to differentiate it from Kukki-Taekwondo. The ITF was the organization that the founder of the American Taekwondo Association, HU Lee was a part of before creating his own style in the ATA. Tiger Rock comes from this.

        Before Taekwondo, Koreans simply were most often training in Japanese Karate, but they called it Tang Soo Do. The Chung Do Kwan was called “Tang Soo Do Chung Do Kwan.” Later, Won Kuk Lee, which Tiger Rock reveres, had a 4th successor named Uhm Woon Kyu, who was given the position as leader of the Chung Do Kwan. Uhm Woon Kyu helped develop Taekwondo as an Olympic Sport, and played a huge role in forming the World Taekwondo Federation, Korean Taekwondo Association, and the Kukkiwon. Uhm was even president of the Kukkiwon after Dr. Un Yung Kim, but has since resigned in 2010. Chung Do Kwan thus is part of the true linage that points to the Kukkiwon which is the accepted organization for Taekwondo recognized by the Korean government. It does not point to a connection or support towards any other organizations for Taekwondo such as ATA or ITA. Tiger Rock is not historically aligned with the direction Chung Do Kwan headed along with all of the other kwans. All kwans now fully support the Kukkiwon and the WTF. If one was linked to a certain kwan and held it with reverence and honor it would seem they also too would align themselves with Kukkiwon standards and practices. But these groups do not.

        According to Uhm Woon Kyu, and vice president of the Chung Do Kwan Hae Man Park (retired), “Kukkiwon Taekwondo is Chung Do Kwan Taekwondo.” It, a long with the 8 other kwans, developed the system of Taekwondo together. Chung Do Kwan is simply now a social friendship club (as all kwans are now) that 100% endorses the Kukkiwon so that the Kukkiwon can retain power and and development over Taekwondo.  This is nowhere in line with groups like Tiger Rock.

        I could personally create my own martial art style with its own ideas and forms. I could then call it Taekwondo and create my own master instructor certifications for people to pay for. I could run my own exclusive tournaments and make money. I could go attend seminars held by old Korean masters from an early Kwan and act like they were my personal teachers and masters. I could then link my linage back to an early kwan easily by the same method groups like ATA and ITA/Tiger Rock used. But this would be dishonest and embellished. I actually would not be a part of the direction Taekwondo history headed with the proper Korean Taekwondo organization of the Kukkiwon. I would be teaching a totally different style of my own making. It really is that simple.

        The point is every original kwan formed together as one style of martial art called Taekwondo with one goal and every historic kwan (all 10 of them) agrees with, fully supports, and is 100% incorporated into the Kukkiwon and accepts the World Taekwondo Federation. Off shoots like Tiger Rock have nothing to do with the Kukkiwon except for the fact some of their instructors visited Korea, or attend a seminar taught by some Kukkiwon grandmasters. If these original ITA (Tiger Rock) founders received Kukkiwon rank somehow it still does not matter since they do not supply rank to their students or even teach the Kukki-Taekwondo system. They also do not participate in WTF tournaments. Also, the Kukkiwon supports independence and does not exclude people from other organizations from testing for their black belt certification. This is exactly the opposite of groups like Tiger Rock who in no way will recognize or care you have a Kukkiwon black belt. If you do join Tiger Rock you have to start all over again as a white belt and pay into their testing fees and certification fees and classes and pay for membership and more fees. No one is even allowed to participate in any ITA tournaments unless they are a Tiger Rock student and paid into whatever rank they wanted to compete at. They are a closed off and exclusive organization. This is most likely so they can claim “World Champions” etc. by not allowing threatening outsiders into tournaments who might beat their people in a match. The American Taekwondo Association is notorious for this as well.

        It has to be mentioned that not every offshoot organization of Taekwondo is necessarily wrong. There are various groups who still teach the Kukkiwon system, but are still their own affiliation with other instructors and schools. Mostly Kukkiwon rank is also given, but sometimes it is not given and only their affiliation rank for their offshoot organization is given. The difference is they are still teaching Taekwondo just without Kukkiwon certifications or affiliation. I personally believe it is not the best idea to be in an offshoot and ignore the Kukkiwon, but they are still true to the art in form. And some groups do have legitimate martial arts skills and teach valid self defense and do not use annoying marketing tactics to create a giant empire. They simply just exist to associate various schools together to teach and learn martial arts. I still personally think they should maintain ties to the Kukkiwon at least for ranking purposes anyway though.

        Unlike Tiger Rock or the ATA, the forms from the Kukkiwon/WTF are free for anyone to practice, perform, and teach. Tiger Rock and the ATA patents their forms to make it illegal for anyone to teach them without being “accredited” by their own group. So if one person earns a black belt in Tiger Rock or ATA and then one day moves or quits training there, they cannot teach the forms to anyone else if they decide to start a gym or affiliate with another group. This shows they want total control and not freedom in their martial arts style. This is another reason why the Kukkiwon is the truth for Taekwondo and allows independence and freedom for Taekwondo martial artists.

        Parents wanting their kids, themselves or anyone else who wants to sign up for Taekwondo lessons please be advised, and do not be fooled by the marketing gimmick of “accreditation.” It is meaningless, and if a corporation’s martial arts skills are lacking, their accreditation is lacking. You cannot truly claim accreditation if one body accredits itself! Affirming itself is a joke. True accreditation is going to be outside judges and panels who affirm something. A third party affirmation. Choose a Kukkiwon related gym for real Taekwondo that does not dictate commands to gym owners and allows them to be independent and truly certified and affirmed by peers. Even the International Taekwon-do Federation is independently run like the Kukkiwon for the most part.

        Mcdojangs simply use marketing gimmicks and silly tactics and embellished histories to get you to pay them a lot of money so they can stay rich.


White Dragon is a 3rd dan Taekwondo Black Belt with over 19 years experience in the Martial Arts and head instructor of the White Dragon Dojang Martial Arts Training Program.

*Since the original submission of this article he has no earned his 4th dan black belt and master certification in Korea from the Kukkiwon and has so far trained for over 21 years.  

  1. Miles Williams says:

    I find this very disrespectful to ANY Tiger Rock practitioners (like myself). This honestly didn’t even have to be written. Yes we charge money for testings and things, but it’s a business smart one. And because it’s not recognized by the kukkiwon doesn’t mean it’s not “taekwondo”. Tiger Rock teaches the basic movements and striking techniques of TKD as well as some jujitsu. It is more complete than the WTF style that most practice and unlike WTF style, it is actually practical in self defense which is the point of martial arts. Martial arts where never meant to be sport but the stupid Kukkiwon have completely disgraced the art by making it a wimpy sport. The Korean Government should be ashamed for making this beautiful art form a silly sport. On top of that, WTF style doesn’t even produce good fighters. Watch any fight between a WTF guy and say…karate. the WTF guy always loses. why? Because the WTF style is all a silly point game. Tiger Rock is a mixture of both taekwondo AND shotokan Karate which makes it superior and more practical. Don’t ever bash another martial arts style or organization based on things you see. You obviously haven’t trained under Tiger Rock and therefore you are making assumptions based on things you’ve only seen.

    • White Dragon says:

      Wow there is so many illogical things and outright false things said in your post I don’t know where to begin. I will just go in order and refute you easily.

      If a post is about the wrong things an organization does, or proves the truth about claims someone made do you think the post itself had the goal of being “respectful” to it? Of course this post is disrespectful to Tiger Rock. That is the point! To show how stupid they are and their silly claims that mean nothing. The proof is all in the article. You admit it as well.

      Nobody disagreed that charging for a testing itself is wrong. But the price you charge for it is extremely expensive and seriously overpriced. Also, it is simply multi level marketing. The ranks mean nothing outside of tiger rock itself.

      If something is not recognized by Taekwondo, the actual and true Taekwondo organization that historically is connected to the original kwons, KTA charimen and Korea and Korean people, I think it is correct to say that it is certainly, NOT Taekwondo.

      Just because someone teaches the basic striking techniques that Taekwondo happens to teach, or have been copied from Taekwondo does not mean it is Taekwondo. That would then be saying Karate and Kung Fu are also Taekwondo and they are clearly not. is Kyokushin Karate also taekwondo? We do the same basic strikes. This is an illogical claim on your part.

      Tiger Rock is not practical in self defense and there is plenty of evidence on Youtube showing their unrealistic attempts at self defense and low quality students. WTF is also not a style of Taekwondo, it is a sport based upon Kukkiowon Taekwondo. Kukkiwon is the martial art of Taekwondo and teaches effective self defense, the poomsae are also full of effective self defense applications and flow logically and progressively in each form. Your forms look like dance numbers and things that have no purpose but to try and show off. Also, connecting them in some mega for pattern defeats the purpose of individual technique study and concepts within each form.

      What is funny is you call the Kukkiwon a disgrace, the true Taekwondo ranking organization, the historically true Taekwondo headquarters made by Koreans, the historical culture that created Taekwondo. You are the disgrace and also ignorant. Calling the Kukkiwon stupid shows you are ignorant.
      The sport of Taekwondo is not wimpy. It is an Olympic sport with high calliuber athletes (Olympic athletes are not wimpy but some of the best conditioned people in the world). WTF sparring is also full contact and knockouts are legal. Tiger Rock promotes the wimpy sport of sport karate light touch contact and “stop and break” point rules. Tiger Rock heavily promotes their own private tournaments that are given by invite only to members of Tiger Rock, wheras WTF tournaments are always open to anyone including other organizations of Taekwondo in the USA that are not Kukkiwon. By all means sign up and register and see how your Tiger Rock foot fencing skills match up against WTF fighters.

      You also insult the Korean government. The Korean governments regulation of Taekwondo has helped Taekwondo stay pure. Different countries have different laws. Do you really think the entire Korean government is stupid? So all Koreans must be stupid then for practicing their own cultures martial art. Should they all adopt Tiger Rock then? I am sure all of the white guys who founded Tiger Rock know better than the Koreans who started Taekwondo. Right?

      I have never once seen a good Tiger Rock fighter. I have seen many who suck and only fighter other Riger Rock guys with light touch, point break karate rules. There are WTF guys who are good fighters. You have not seen every WTF fighter in the entire world. You are biased, but if you cared you could find videos of WTF practitioners who actually are capable at self defense on youtube. That is because they also take time to study Kukki-Taekwondo and not only spar in tournaments. Do you thin the South Korean special forces suck at fighting? many of them are WTF fighters as well. Do they all suck?

      WTF is more than points, it is also about knockouts. Tiger Rock is all about points and no knockouts. So what you are saying about WTF only being about points is invalid, and actually applies to Tiger Rock sparring. You have the unrealistic sparring.

      So since tiger Rock also teaches “jiu jitsu techniques” does that mean you are also a jiujitsu practitioner? Since you happen to do a jiu jitsu move automatically makes you a Jiujitsu guy as well? That is ridiculous and an absurd claim.

      True Taekwondo is a martial art based off of various styles of martial arts, most noteably shotokan Karate. To say Kukkiwon is not at all based on Shotokan and somehow Tiger Rock is and somehow superior is a fallacious argument. Kukki-Taekwondo has techniques virtually the same as Shotokan and it shows. The founding masters of the KTA, many of them, were high dan levels of Shotokan Karate.

      Also your claim that you are not allowed to make observations (which you call assumptions, which is not accurate because I am not assuming anything, its actually true and observable what I am exposing) is silly. Science is based on observations and tests. No one has to literally train in Tiger Rock to make valid observations and opinions about what they see. I have also seen tiger rock students and taught them as well as sparred a black belt who sucked. Not only have I seen it but I experienced it. Its no wonder tiger rock students leave and came to me for training before.

      Also have you trained in Kukki-Taekwondo? Spared in WTF tournaments? Or did you just watch video and base “assumptions” on things you saw? If so that is very hypocritical. But what would I expect from someone who trains Tiger rock. You are told incorrect history and faulty self defense concepts that will get you killed. Its simply all about money with Tiger Rock.

      Also Tiger Rock is based from ATA, which seems to show that ATA must be superior to tiger rock even and thats pretty sad.

      You simply have expressed your ignorance of Taekwondo, its history, techniques, and martial arts in general as well as self defense.

      Also America is a free country and I have the right to speak freely about my observations which are given with evidence, about Tiger Rock. There is nothing you can do about it.

      • Henry Corley says:

        You are an idot! Your not worth anyone’s time. Only 19 years experience and you know more than those that have trained 40 years and they actively train. You are so full of yourself. Your a player of words

      • White Dragon says:

        No I have had 23 years now. Your response tells me that you are the idiot and not me. I know a lot more than any mcdojang 40 years training tiger rock dork.

      • Henry Corley says:

        You got me. I can’t believe I fell for it. Your just joking. Your whole write up was a joke right? Man am I stupid. That was funny. Thank you for lifting my day 😬👌

    • Brennan says:

      Well i am a Kukkuwon black belt, and i walked into a tiger rock school and joined. The difference was that they didnt make me start over, i kept my rank as black belt. I went to the tournaments and beat up their instructors, and their masters…..to be honest it all depends on the school that teaches. I have seen some good Tiger rock schools, and i have seen some bad Kukki-Style Taekwondo schools. I have fought in all types of tournaments karate Full Contact, taekwondo Full Contact, Tiger rock tournaments, I have fought all over America and Korea where I currently stay. Tiger rock is a great place for kids to gain confidence, and to learn like values. Some of the techniques they teach our practical, but I don’t know if you can put it on the same level as other taekwondo cells that are very big and establish. When I was at the Tiger rock school for short period of time, I wanted to fight in outside tournaments, but if i did fight In other tournaments I could not wear the Tiger rock uniform, or I could not use the gear that I have spent so much money on. Also, the sport is not silly do not bash the sport that you never experience. Until you Fight full contact olympic style Taekwondo I would advise you to not comment on it.

      • White Dragon says:

        Tiger Rock is a multi-level marketing scheme and a total ripoff.

        Maybe 1 kick or something is an effective technique but they have no sense in actual self defense and pass people to black belt within 1 year.

        Also how can they prevent you from wearing tiger rock pads at a tournament? They cant.

        Screw Tiger Rock! Why would you waste your time and money on an obvious scam system?

  2. Miles Williams says:

    Here you go buddy. Your style of tkd lol. Kukkiwon and you sir are a joke and should not call yourselves martial artist.

    • White Dragon says:

      That video is so old. The WTF guy did not completely suck as you are making it out to be. Fact is the Kyokushin guy was just better. He is also better than tiger rock. In fact the WTF guy in that video would beat a tiger rock average black belt.

      You are just butthurt that I posted about your cult Tiger Rock and I also provided evidence exposing their nonsense claims as meaningless.

      For any 1 video you claim to call “the WTF style” there are probably 12 of sucky tiger rock videos of absolute stupidity.

      Tiger Rock sucks worse than the ATA. Anything the ATA sucks at (which is alot) Tiger Rock sucks worse. Enjoy paying a fortune for subpar self defense instruction and fancy dance forms. Go troll somewhere else.

      • Miles Williams says:

        Buddy your evidence was lame. Until you’ve done a class at tiger rock, you can’t say anything. And dude you can hate on tiger rock all you want. At the end of day, where real fighters while your wtf guys are just competitors. Your “martial art” holds no weight. Have fun trying to defend yourself using only kicks that you most likely won’t even be able to do… Especially not in regular, civilian clothing. But okay whatever. The ata makes amazing fighters by the way. I’m friends with a few students of the ATA. And we all compete in mma, and other fighting tournaments (mainly must thai). And that’s the thing, wtf only teaches you to kick and it only teaches “tkd”. Tiger rock teaches you tkd while also teaching you boxing, must thai, and juijitsu…. Everything you need to defend yourself when needed. I’ve beaten wtf guys simply because 1. They tried kicks that should never be tried in a real fight. 2. Hands where always down (I still don’t know why you guys do that smh) and 3. You we’d guys have no body conditioning. You get hit in the stomach or solar Plex one time and your down. So again, don’t talk down and a program that’s really teaching martial arts simply because you know in your heart that your style is inferior to not only other tkd styles.. But other martial arts period👌

      • White Dragon says:

        Buddy your evidence was lame. Until you’ve done a class at tiger rock, you can’t say anything. And dude you can hate on tiger rock all you want.”

        Until you have trained under a certified Kukkiwon instructor you can’t say anything. And thank you I WILL in fact continue hating on Tiger Rock and discussing the ridiculous mcdojang that it is.

        At the end of day, where real fighters while your wtf guys are just competitors.

        Correct, all WTF guys who are participating in WTF are “just competitors.” That is because WTF is the sport organization for tournaments worldwide. It is not a martial art style. Now let’s compare Tiger Rock sparring to WTF sparring:

        Tiger Rock Sparring:

        Yes it is foot tag and hand touch tag, and light contact. They stop and break. real fights do not stop and none of those techniques that score points would be enough to stop an person or anything close to being lethal. Original Japanee “no touch” Karate had the “ippon” rule which was to show a lethal technique that could have occured. Koreans with their Taekwondo put a stop to the nonsense of “touch sparring” and make it continuous. That video above is an average sparring match in Tiger Rock which ios a private tournament that only allows other Tiger Rock people to fight in. That is because Tiger Rock knows outsiders would defeat their best and make them look bad. WTF on the other hand is open to anyone who signs up and register. Any style. Just follow the rules.

        WTF sparring:

        Knockouts are legal and one of the main goals to win a fight. It is continuous sparring and full contact. There is no “point break” when someone scores. Tiger rock is extremely unrealistic and boring in this aspect.
        Also, you are judging a sport and not a martial art. Its like saying boxing sucks because it is unrealistic (and yes it is according to a street fight) but only a fool would claim boxing sucks. Boxing is brutal. Likewise Olympic Taekwondo sparring is also brutal. WTF athletes are faster and more accurate and conditioned than your average tiger rock black belt and that is a fact.

        Your “martial art” holds no weight. Have fun trying to defend yourself using only kicks that you most likely won’t even be able to do… Especially not in regular, civilian clothing. But okay whatever.

        Actually yes it does hold weight. Did you know Taekwondo was ued in the Vietnam war? Who’s Taekwondo? THE KOREANS\’S TAEKWONDO It was not Tiger rock! Taekwondo has been adopted by militaries worldwide for combatives practice. Taekwondo has tons of hoshinsool techniques. Also I can do pretty much any Taekwondo kick in civilian clothes and accurately. Are you trying to claim that you personally can do all of your tiger rock foot fencing flippy double kicks in real life fighting and in civilian clothes? How is that easier to do or more effective than Kukki-Taekwondo kicks?

        The ata makes amazing fighters by the way. I’m friends with a few students of the ATA. And we all compete in mma, and other fighting tournaments (mainly must thai). And that’s the thing, wtf only teaches you to kick and it only teaches “tkd”.

        The ATA on average and more often than not makes terrible fighters. All though i can see how you would be impressed by then. They may be the largest mcdojang chain in the entire world and tiger rock is far beneath them, but they are certain better than tiger rock. Tiger rock basically copies ATA. Tiger Rock was founded by junior ATA instructors. Not even masters of ATA or full instructors. It is a fact and I documented the evidence in the above article you probably did not read.

        Oh you compete in MMA do you? Provide some links to videos tough guy. Any average jobber can compete in MMA. There are low qualifications to fight in MMA. Just because someone does MMA doe snot make them a master fighter or any better than a seasoned martial artist who does not compete in MMA. That is a fallacious argument. You can have someone who trained for 1 year fight in ammy MMA, that would not make them better than someone who trained 10 years in a martial art who does not compete in MMA.

        And what Thai tournaments, mainly you said (lol), do you compete in? Please list the THAI tournaments you competed in. I am sorry but Tiger Rock does not teach Muay tHai, nor do they have any linage to real muay thai masters. If they claim to teach muay thai then it is just a copy and false system of muay thai which would not be suprising since tiger rock is in fact a mcdojang.

        And that’s the thing, wtf only teaches you to kick and it only teaches “tkd”. Tiger rock teaches you tkd while also teaching you boxing, must thai, and juijitsu…. Everything you need to defend yourself when needed.

        False. the WTF allows punches to the body. Training for WTF a fighter would learn not only kicks but footwork, evasive techniques, blocks and punches. There is more to WTF than kicks. This is a fact. Also you seem to be claiming WTF is a martial art when it is not. Kukki-Taekwondo (Kukkiwon) teaches everything for self defense: kicks, punches, elbows, knees, joint locks, sweeps, takedowns, pressure points, blocks, evasive techniques, footwork and more. It is a complete martial art. I am Kukkiwon certified and I do all of this as well as teach all of this. I also did compete in olympic rules sparring for many years before I began teaching as well.
        And of course Kukki-Taekwondo ONLY teaches Taekwondo! THAT IS BECAUSE IT IS TAEKWONDO!!!! Why would you expect Taekwondo to teach another martial art than it is? That is like saying Judo sucks because they only teach Judo. You are coming off as an illogical buffoon.

        And to say Tiger Rock teaches boxing is silly. Are they USA boxing certified? Do they compete in ammy boxing? I dont think so. Boxing is also just a sport and according to your standards about martial arts is unrealistic. It has no kicks, no elbows, no takedowns etc. yet you are claiming Tiger Rock is full of real tough boxers? I dont think so. Almost every Tiger Rock black belt I have seen can’t punch worth a crap. I have in fact trained under a level 3 USA boxing coach, which means Olympic Boxing (yes like Olympic Taekwondo which means it is serious business), and learned boxing. That is how you learn boxing. You train under qualified instructors. You do not train at Tiger Rock.
        Also any JiuJitsu Tiger Rock teaches sucks. if I want to learn JJ I will train at a BJJ academy under a true BJJ program. Heck I already have trained in MMA and BJJ as well as Judo. I dont need one organization to dictate to me what to train and pay money for their BS certifications. There are tons of martial arts groups out there. You limit yourself. Tiger Rock is a copy cat style based off of selling certificates to gullible students who have not tested anything under real pressure.

        I’ve beaten wtf guys simply because 1. They tried kicks that should never be tried in a real fight. 2. Hands where always down (I still don’t know why you guys do that smh) and 3. You we’d guys have no body conditioning. You get hit in the stomach or solar Plex one time and your down.

        Video or it didn’t happen.
        Hands down in sport TKD because it is a sport and it blocks points. Why do tiger rock idiots always foot fence? Oh same reason, point scoring! Tiger rock people always have their hands down as well.
        No conditioning? Yes I am sure all of the Team USA Taekwondo fighters have absolutely no body conditioning. I am sure Tiger Rock teaches the iron body technique? LOL you are the joke. not me. You are just making things up now.

        So again, don’t talk down and a program that’s really teaching martial arts simply because you know in your heart that your style is inferior to not only other tkd styles.. But other martial arts period👌

        Actually I WILL keep talking down about a program that actually IS NOT teaching martial arts but is simply a multi leel marketing business that rips people off constantly and leaves more disgruntled parents and students than satisfied ones. The satisfied ones are people who have tons of money to waste with low self esteem and want to feel special around other dorks who suck as well and are not knowledgeable.

        I know in my heart that Kukki-Taekwondo, which is the true Korean Taekwondo, is in fact superior to all other styles of Taekwondo. It is because the other styles are not real taekwondo but made up organizations. Even ITF is not fromt he true linage of Taekwondo but an offshoot, but they are 100x better than ATA or Tiger Rock combined. In fact ATA is an offshoot of ITF and Tiger Rock is an offshoot from ATA from disgruntled junio instructors who decided they knew more than master instructors in their own organization. Tiger rock is a mcdojang period.

      • White Dragon says:

        Here is a video showcasing the superior, master techniques of the ultimate martial art: Tiger Rock style:

        If you actually think that is crisp, accurate, and effective techniques you in fact are ignorant.

      • White Dragon says:

        More reasons why you are wrong about true Korean Taekwondo:

        We do have hand techniques are the Koreans are better than you at them as well as better thna Tiger rock at them.

        And this is how eal self defense concepts are taught and trained. Not the BS 10 million strikes than Tiger Rock has for each one step (yes because the enemy will just stand there for 1 hour waiting for you to finish):

        Now go train in a real martial art and shut up!

  3. Miles Williams says:

    Well hey you said it yourself. WTF is not a martial arts style👌 point proven. So again, you can’t bash tiger rock because you haven’t taken classes with them, you don’t know what we train in outside of tournaments, and three…. Our point break rules are just as useless as your stupid Olympic game of tag. So just cool it. And our bodies are more conditions because you guys have these damn pads over your whole body. Therefore you don’t feel any force on your body. We don’t have that shit. So any time we get hit…we feel it. And if you want me to get personal, I do kyokushin and muay thai and the body conditioning is beyond your comprehension👌 and I know I’m not the only person in tiger rock that does body conditioning. Again… I’m friends with alit of students. Including our grandmaster ( who is a grandmaster by the way). Look ill give you my damn address and we can see who wins. And I don’t mean that gay sparring. I mean a real fight… In a ring… With nothin but gloves. I would really love to see your stupid sport face my style of tkd anyway. You keep trying to defend something that is only excepted because it’s fun to watch. And then you or someone else said that the average wtf blackbelt can beat anyone in a fight?? Dude no. If a wtf blackbelt ever wins in a fight, it’s because he either got a lucky shot, or he has extra training in other martial arts. Which… A lot of wtf practitioners don’t have because they have this “tkd” pride😂 and only want to practice these fancy kicks that barely work. So again, just stop. Is your thing fun to watch… Yes. Is it a good workout.. Sure. But the fact that wtf is only popular for those reasons, makes in inferior to any other fighting styles or whatever you wonna call them. That’s my point, and I know you understand where I’m coming from. So stop trying to argue the same points that I already shut you down on. Please. Like therea nothing else to discuss.

    • White Dragon says:

      What point was proven? Are you an idiot? You claim WTF sucks. You are claiming WTF is a style of Taekwondo. You previously stated Kukkiwon is the WTF or a sport. You are mistaken and I showed you why. You are delusional. But that is the cult mentality of tiger rock.

      I am glad you agree that your tiger rock point break rules are stupid. But to say olympic sparring is tag is a joke. I think you mean that Tiger Rock is a game of tag, which it is, whereas olympic sparring is full contact continuous fighting. Get it right.

      You assume people who train Kukki-Taekwondo have no conditioning? You base it on the use of pads. That is incredibly stupid. Tiger Rock has no pads because theya re unecesary and light touch contact. There is no need to protect the chest when you cannot get hurt! Put on a chest gear and allow any WTF fighter to round kick you as hard as they can and then tell me how wussy it is. You will probably keel over. Pads dont make kicks not hurt, they simply allow peple to last longer and provide safety from hard contact. Your assessment is just as stupid as saying boxing sucks because they use padded gloves and dont have conditioned fists. You are seriously delusional.

      Also you assume kukki-taekwondo black belts do not practice contact without pads and we do not practice body conditioning. We do. Get a clue.

      Tiger rock may not have chest gear but you have the gayest boot pads, hand pads, and headhear. Why does anyone with light touch contact need a sparring boot pads? It serves no purpose and also looks stupid.

      Oh wow you do kyokushin? Under who? What organization? If you are claiming ykokushin is making you badass you are only furthering my point that tiger rock sucks. You need kyokushin to be tough. You cant do it on tiger rock alone. yet previously you stated tiger rock is ALL you need and a complete martial art. Who do you train in muay thai under? What master? I dont think you train in any of this. I think you are talking nonsense.

      Now you want to fight me? You got personal and are challenign me to a match? Come to Alabama and fight me. Where do you live? I will fight you. Until you plan to come here and prove your point you can shut up because I know you are full of crap.

      Also at least you admit olympic sparring is fun to watch. You cannot say the same for tiger rock sparring. lol

      yes I ONLY train sport…uh huh and im sure I in no way am as tough as you or as good. If that is true you can come and prove it.

      And I said the average WTF sparring competitor who would of course be a kukkiwon black belt can most likely beat the avgerage tiger rock black belt. Think real hard about the quality of your organizations black belts for a moment….Also you are now trying to put words in my mouth stating that I claimed “WTF black belts” can beat ANYONE in a fight. I never said that. Idiot.

      You never shut me down on any point but are only making yourself and tiger rock look incredibly stupid. I will not stop promoting true Taekwondo and stating opinions from observable evidence in the martial arts word, including how much tiger rock is a mcdojang chain and not a legitimate place to learn serious and true martial arts.

      Also I looked you up on facebook. You have got to be kidding to try and challenge me to a fight. I outweight your skinny ass by probably 100lbs.

      Yes there is nothing else to discuss. If you do not plan to come and fight me then shut up and go away. Just move on. Accept the fact people in the world WILL be critial of tiger rock. I already accepted the fact that dorks like you will insult Kukki-Taekwondo and make baseless claims and logical fallacies about it. I can still live and I dont have to challenge anyone to a fight or care. But people like you have poor bruised egos. You lack the tenets of taekwondo.

      But if you want a REAL street fight with me fine. See what happens. You won’t like the result kid.

      • Miles Williams says:

        Lol Ight son I’m done😂 I can’t do it anymore. And I’m not “butthurt”… It’s called defending something😏 cmon now. And shut up about the tenets because there isn’t one single student that follows every single tenet. We all fall short buddy👌 and I’m not skinny 😂 and there’s a difference between skinny and in shape smart one😏 and weight doesn’t matter. Fighting skills are the only thing that matter. I’ve beat plenty of big guys that thought they were hard. Size isn’t really an advantage if you know where to hit em👌 as a striking martial artist, you should know that. But aye you know what, I’m gonna go ahead and apologize for anything offensive I’ve said. I’ve made my point… So I’m done. We got different views on things. And that’s coo. People don’t agree on a lot of shit👌 whatever. But dawg lookin me up… That’s kinda weird lol. But honestly, this whole thing is officially squashed👌 you wonna tell us friends about dis… Go ahead. I hope you feel like
        More of a man😏 bye kid.

      • White Dragon says:

        Yes you are butthurt. I am glad you are done. Go back to training at the mcdojang with your mcdojang warriors and talk tough with them. Dont do it on my blog. Your problem is you cannot rationally defend tiger rock or use a logical argument. You simply use ad hominems, straw men, and false analogies.

        Nobody is perfect, not everyone can follow the 5 tenets every day forever. Thats why the TKD community holds each other in check. Something Tiger Rock seems to lack because most students who are serious do not argue the way you do or challenge people on the internet to a street fight. You are not even the first Tiger Rock person to challenge me to a street fight. Its getting old and annoying. There is a lack of discipline within your organization.

        No actually you are skinny. I saw your facebook…I never said you were not in shape. Maybe you have a skinny frame, fact is I outweigh you by a large amount and it is stupid to challenge people on the internet. I have also trained for 20 years. Putting both those together puts you at an unfair advantage. So it is not wonder you are going to back out now and walk away. You talk trash and then back out bc you know you made a mistake. Watch your mouth it can cause you to get knocked out one day.
        Oh and I have also beaten plenty of skinny guys who thought they were hard and tough sooo back at ya.

        You wanted to street fight me so I looked you up. How is that weird? Im going to see what I am up against. Apparently you are just a keyboard mcdojang warrior defend the honor of your martial arts corporation. Grow up.

        And yes I am more of a man than you and you are the only kid. Get lost and dont come back and please dont let any of your dumb friends post next…I will simply block them.

        My article stands as truth and you cannot take away my right to free speech. This is America. Not North Korea. I backed up all of my claims in this article with observable facts, using Tiger Rocks own sources as well. You do train in a mcdojang organization and it is a fact. Their accredited instructors claim is meaningless and you do not train kyokushin, Muay Thai, or fight MMA. You are lying.

        Don’t let the White Dragon spin kick your ass on the way out. bye.

  4. […] Tiger Rock’s Claim Of Accredited Instructors Is Meaningless […]

  5. J says:

    Really I do see a lot of name calling and assumptions. I see pious individuals (on both sides) arguing about levels and rules. Please help the youth of all our cultures to become strong individuals and show them strength and humility. Please embrace all within martial arts for the good of the community. Respect each other.

    • White Dragon says:

      Respect only what is true and what is valid. I dont have to respect Tiger Rock or follow your pretentious and self righteous attitude.

  6. kicker1965 says:

    First, apparently you think martial arts training is about fighting. It is sad that you tried to raise money from other people to pay to test for 4th degree black belt and have not advanced beyond that fallacious concept. Second, 76 people follow your facebook page so at least you are not able to spread your theories far and wide. You have less followers than a small marital arts school. Third, below is a video of you performing. Maybe you should spend more time working on your own technique rather than tearing down other martial artist only to make yourself feel better.

    • White Dragon says:

      Oh really? Does it make you feel better than you tried to tear me down on my own blog? Don’t be a hyporite.

      What evidence do you have to provide that martial arts are not about fighting? Define martial arts.

      Also I am 4th dan and master ranked in Korea. I also paid for it all myself and no longer had a gofundme page. If you think that is meaningless you are an idiot. It is much better than falling back on “tiger rock’s accredited instructors.” Don’t be a hypocrite, we all know Tiger Rock is obsessed with selling its worthless certificates to their gullible students for way more money than I paid my entire time in Korea.

      My technique is 100% better than your nonexistent technique. You cannot even provide a video. A lot more than 76 people read my blog buddy or watch my youtube. My technique in that video is probably better than your technique or your instructors from tiger rock. Also, that video is old and I am even better now. I have plenty of video evidence to prove it you want to ignore. I can also actually fight. I have been challenged by you tiger rock idiots before and each time you puss out and make excuses. If you do not like what I said go write a blog about how you love paying exorbitant amounts of money for subpar training in your mcdojang.

      You appeal to logical fallacies in all of your argumentation. The amount of people who follow something does not make it correct or true.

  7. JHayes says:

    White Dragon, I think your opinion of your denomination of Taekwondo is a little inflated. I hoped that between Bruce Lee and MMA martial arts was past the point of “my style is the best.” I started training in ITF style TKD at the age of 6 in 1989. My then instructor was a student of G.M. Art Monroe (obviously not then a G.M.). I cannot speak to Tiger Rock’s marketing practices, but I assure you that my instructor’s training was legitimate. Perhaps like many schools, as student count rises, average student quality declines. I am just getting back into TKD after about a 10 year hiatus, and I am surprised how well my technique has held up.

    I think the argument that a TKD organization can’t be quality because none of the ranking members are Korean is sad.

    The argument about ITF style vs. WTF style sparring is a tired one. I understand your side of the argument. Here’s a couple of mine:

    1) Why no hands to the head in WTF sparring? It shouldn’t be a safety issue. Our legs are stronger than our arms.

    2) The idea behind ITF style sparring is to master control. Once proper technique is learned, it isn’t really a challenge to kick and strike hard. So, the challenge comes in the ability to execute moves at full speed and then stop them a quarter inch away from your target. (I don’t consider this a hindrance to self defense, because I don’t believe in kicking above the belt in those situations.)

    I think we should keep in mind that the whole division between ITF and WTF began over political issues. I’m sure there are things I could learn from you, and I bet you could learn a trick or two from me as well. I feel like I have many more occasions to make friends in life than defend myself in fights to the death. So I think we should behave as such and try to learn from each other instead of engaging in an endless cycle of trash talking.

    • White Dragon says:

      I believe I can be friends with people and still debate things about martial arts.

      If martial arts is about being humble and having integrity Tiger Rock fall very short. If a business practice is unethical it should be questioned and brought into the light.

      There are actually certain organizations that are better than others, and styles that are better than others. You get what you want. Nothing is relative…

      Your questions about sport have nothing to do with this issue either so I won’t bother to answer them.

  8. Youareuniformed says:

    Thank you for your humorous review! It made me laugh

  9. Andreea says:

    Really interesting article. A friend wanted to practise TKD with me, but I am ITF and he is ATA (which i had never heard of until I moved away from the UK) and was wondering what your advice would be? Of course all our forms would be different but would the fundamentals like kicking and punching be different too?

    • White Dragon says:

      Make them learn your forms and focus on self defense and not buying ranks. DO NOT….I repeat DO NOT sign up with ATA!!!!!
      Find another ITF gym or a Kukkiwon affiliated gym.

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